• Tara's LinkedIn
• Kensington Vanguard's Website
• Kensington Vanguard's LinkedIn

Note: This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. 

Sean Swentek: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Future of CRE Sustainability. I’m your host, Sean Swentek. Today I am joined by Tara Brown-Selders, MBA. She’s the VP of Business Development at Kensington Vanguard National Land Services. Tara, thank you so much for joining me today.

Tara Brown-Selders: Thank you so much for having me, Sean. I appreciate it.

Sean Swentek: We’ve got a lot to talk about. I’m really excited for this conversation. Now, Tara, you’ve built a career bridging renewable energy and title insurance fields that don’t naturally connect, maybe for a lot of people. What sparked your journey into this unique intersection?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, I actually started in the title insurance industry in a production role when I was still going through college getting my undergraduate degree. And you know, after some time there, I left the industry and really wanted to focus on being a small business owner and specifically an ecopreneur. So somebody that is focused on a business that is committed to environmental sustainability and is also focused on the triple bottom line people, planet, profit. So I was enjoying that as much as I could, but couldn’t quite get that last part profit down. So I decided to kind of, you know, leave the small business aside and return to the industry. And so when I returned to the title insurance industry, there was a large growing client base of wind and solar developers with large projects.

And being all these other skills that I had developed as a small business owner, I made the intentional decision to go back into title insurance, but to combine my knowledge and my skills with my desire to, you know, be an entrepreneur and to focus on something that had a positive impact in the planet. So in that case would be the energy transition, renewable energy. So I decided to come back in more of a project management role and really focused on customer service, recouping funds, implementing processes, and eventually was able to obtain an opportunity to include business development into my project management role and really took a liking to it. And so I determined pretty quickly that I was able to build a pipeline and sales was really where I fit in best in the huddle insurance process.

And so I, three years ago this month joined KV and have been growing their energy division ever since and championed the energy transition. While you Know, taking those skills and kind of running with it and just like you said, combining two things that you wouldn’t normally combine.

Sean Swentek: So what is your day to day at KV like and how does that integrate with the commercial real estate space and especially sustain commercial real estate?

Tara Brown-Selders: That’s a great question. So I wear a lot of hats is what I like to say, because growing a division you’ve got to be flexible and you’ve got to, you know, be persistent. So part of my job is sales based reaching out to clients, whether it’s virtually or in person because I do like to make the rounds. But I think part of it is just showing up and showing that you know your intentions. And so a lot of it is bringing on new clients, also just nurturing the relationships with existing customers, really. Also wearing that marketing hat and working on brand awareness for Kensington Vanguard and also just, you know, our energy transition and all of the things that I’m really passionate about. And so I think from that perspective it’s quite interesting.

I also can put on my production hat if I need to get in to the title. If there’s something going on in a transaction that needs attention, I can typically jump in and see, okay, where do we need help or who do I need to and less to solve this problem. And so it’s really more of trying to make the title insurance process a more smoother, positive experience. So I love it.

Sean Swentek: Amazing. How are title insurance needs evolving as commercial real estate embraces more sustainable energy projects?

Tara Brown-Selders: So that’s actually something that I realized when I had come back a few years ago to the title insurance industry. I had previously worked on projects that were more like oil and gas stations, cell towers, multi state transactions. You’ve got to be able to keep things organized while also understanding the differences in various regions. So I was taking kind of those similar processes and understanding and just applying it to energy. But when it comes to these renewable energy projects, they’re larger in scope, they’re more land intensive. There’s what I like to say, more pieces of the puzzle, there’s more parties involved, it’s just a longer process.

And so we really want to make sure that what already works in a traditional commercial real estate transaction, how can we apply what already works and lend it to energy while also taking our industry and being a little more flexible and understanding that we’ve got to understand who, you know, owns the surface rights. We need to understand what’s going on with the minerals. Is there any mineral activity? You know, is the community ready for this project? How can we help the developer if they need referrals, or how can we build partnerships? So it’s really kind of encompassing all of that together to really take what we’re already doing and just apply it to something where we all have the same goal. Right, which is energy transition, which is secure America’s energy.

So I think it’s really a unique way to take some existing knowledge and just reapply it.

Sean Swentek: What role specifically does title insurance play in de risking renewable energy projects for commercial properties?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, you know, it’s kind of one of those, you know, it’s like the insurance that I always say, it’s like the insurance you have to have but you never want to use. Right. So it’s making sure that we’re de risking the land and setting up the client for success to help them meet certain milestones, to make sure that once they’ve gotten through all of the permitting and other land service aspects, that they are ready to, you know, start construction, get financing. You know, all the pieces of the puzzle come together. We’re really. You need it at the beginning. It’s kind of like a hurry up, help us. Okay, now wait. Now hurry up again, now, help us. Okay, now we’re ready to buy some insurance and we’re ready to go along for the ride. It’s something that isn’t cut and dry.

Office building takes a few months or, you know, whole bunch of gas stations where there’s a lender involved and there’s multiple states. And we’re, you know, kind of making sure that we’re on a very short timeline. These are something where you really have to invest with the client and understand that the title insurance is not going to be needed necessarily upfront, but at some point through the process is when we’re going to need it. And we need to have all of our ducks in a row so that we’re ready to present that policy and.

Sean Swentek: You’re there when they need them. I love it. What’s the most unexpected challenge that someone who owns a piece of land or property and they’re developing renewable energy there, they might face when securing property rights?

Tara Brown-Selders: That’s a good question. Do you mean from like a landowner perspective or from like a developer perspective?

Sean Swentek: From the developer perspective.

Tara Brown-Selders: So a lot of it is really targeting the right pieces of land from the very beginning. Right. So before they’re reaching out to us, they’re utilizing software or land agents that are actually boots on the ground, making sure that these parcels that they’ve initially targeted are in fact, viable pieces and Once they’ve started the negotiation with the landowners, at that point they’ll bring in the title company. And there is some discussion about that, you know, because there is an initial cost to the title process, the title search, right. The policy is where you pay for the policy at the end, but the beginning, there’s typically an upfront cost on the title search, right?

So you really want to make sure that you’re not spending too much time, too many resources, if that piece of land isn’t actually going to make it, or that landowner might not be as cooperative, or maybe there’s another restriction or existing oil production. I mean, it could be anything, right? So it’s really, the developers need to understand when to reach out to title companies. Do they need full title searches? Do they need to just reach out and find out who owns the land the last 30 years? Have they paid their taxes? Are there any liens? We just need the basics, right? We’ve already identified this land. It’s a viable piece of land. It meets XYZ criteria. But is it something that the title insurance company will be able to insure our interest?

And so for developers, they’re typically looking for insurers to insure their lease interest. Sometimes they’ll buy the land, but a lot of times they’re just leasing a portion. And so it’s really important to get us involved as soon as possible. Once you get far enough in the process that you don’t want to go too far, because then you got the lawyers saying, hey, wait, back up, think something here.

Sean Swentek: You mentioned research, because I think when people hear title insurance, they really focus on that part of the business. But there’s really two key parts of title insurance, right? There’s the actual insurance product. And then I think there’s a lot of research that your team often does. Can you talk a little bit about that piece of the puzzle?

Tara Brown-Selders: Yes. So a lot of times we need to be mindful not just of who actually owns the land, but also who might own the mineral interests below the land. So when traditionally, like commercial real estate, a lot of times that’s more urban development, there’s less of the permitting that goes into more rural spaces there. It might be a little bit more cut and dry. There might not be a question of are there potentially mineral interests below the ground that we need to be aware of. So it’s interesting because it’s the same. It’s still commercial real estate, but it’s just kind of opening it up to different types of property, different types of developments, and then Opening up to different rights. So you’ve got mineral rights, which is subsurface rights, and then you’ve got surface rights, which is typically the ground up.

So that’s something that we really have to be very mindful of from the very beginning. And searching the middle interests can typically be a lot costlier and more time consuming than searching the surface interest. And so at Kensington Vanguard, we also work with companies that can offer, you know, we can search the surface records, we can also search the mineral records. We can try to have them done at the same time to save resources, time and money and to really make sure that if the client wants the mineral exception removed, that we have done our due diligence in order to meet that request.

Sean Swentek: How do you navigate different state regulations when you’re working with, like, nationwide developers, nationwide portfolios?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, that is exactly why I went to Kensington Vanguard, because they’re a national title agency. And so that’s something that I had learned from my previous roles, was in order to really support, you know, the energy transition and the different developers and the size of their projects and the locations in the different regions, you’ve got to be large enough to have folks in all of those various areas that we can lean on for different state regulations, but we’re also small enough that we can still kind of provide that white glove approach. Right. So I work with different closers within Kensington Vanguard that are specialized in certain states. And so I like to say, like, I’ve got my Texas guy and I’ve got my Virginia gal and my New York guy and my Illinois gal.

So it’s really leaning on the resources of Kensington Vanguard and our closers that have been focused on traditional commercial real estate transactions for years or decades in some cases. And some of those attorneys are actually licensed in multiple states. And so I really lean on them and their expertise when it comes to something that’s state specific. But I also understand that Texas is different than non Texas. And so you have to be able to put those different hats on when you’re really trying to help guide a developer through all these various regulations, because it can get quite extensive and it could potentially derail a project. And that’s what we’re trying to avoid. Right. So if I can bring the right person in from the very beginning and have that clear, you know, communication, then we’re going to help kind of overcome those challenges.

Or they might be positive challenges. Oh, we need to meet this goal that this state has, you know, this mandate. We might see more requests from developers to work in Certain areas, regional expertise.

Sean Swentek: With a national presence. I love that. And we stand behind at Omnidian as well. So for commercial real estate owner, and you mentioned this earlier, there’s urban commercial real estate, obviously, and there’s landowners doing, you know, obviously oil and gas, but also these large renewable developments. Now, how can a commercial real estate owner operator leverage a renewable energy investment to enhance their property’s value?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, that’s a great question. And if it’s, you know, something where they already have an existing infrastructure, maybe they could put like a carport, maybe it’s possible to add a battery storage system, maybe there’s a way to do like a community solar program with different clients that are trying to share resources and have a better, you know, more energy efficient, you know, process. But in general, it really depends. If you’re a landowner and you’ve got a whole bunch of rural land and you’re not growing a product the way that you used to, or, you know, a crop, you. You really want to potentially look at it and maybe have someone come to your land and say, hey, can we utilize these a hundred acres better? What are our options? Right.

So it’s really, if the land is undeveloped, what kind of freedom do you have to utilize your land in different way and potentially section off different portions for different developments? But maybe it’s something where you implement, you know, some ESG initiatives, maybe you’ve make sure that you’re getting the best energy rate, make sure that if you have an option for solar that you’re installing it. So I think it really is a little bit of an out of the box thinking, but it’s also just the resources are out there. It’s just tapping into them.

Sean Swentek: Yeah. Now, when commercial property owners do consider solar installation, what crucial element might they sometimes overlook?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, you know, I think part of it is you have to find a good partner. Right. You don’t want to just work with anybody that just comes knocking on the door and says, hey, let’s install solar on your rooftop.

Sean Swentek: Right.

Tara Brown-Selders: Part of it is, and that’s something that we also lean into just in general. I love providing introductions or referrals or just, you know, helping solve a problem or, oh, I know a guy that might, you know, be good for that. So I think part of it is really just kind of doing your due diligence on who you’re choosing to work with and really taking some time to understand what the options are. But I think when it comes from like a title perspective, even though they might not need a title insurance policy or a new policy, they’re still going to need to make sure that, let’s say they’re leasing a building that the management company they’re leasing it from. They might still need to get like a 30 year title report.

They need to make sure that, you know, all the bills have been paid and that company does in fact own the land so that they can, you know, get that solar installment developed. But you know, it’s interesting because some projects require title insurance and some projects require title work but not title insurance. And so we offer that as well.

Sean Swentek: I think that on a state by state basis.

Tara Brown-Selders: It can be on a state by state basis. It also just varies if there’s something where there might be like a lender involved, they might be requiring it, or a financier. I’ve worked on some large projects. I worked on a solar installation at the Javits center in New York and that was really cool. It was a couple million dollar project, but there was a lender involved and they didn’t need title insurance, but they needed a full title search. And so, you know, we charge a very small processing fee so that, you know, obviously there’s a fee for our service, but not every project that we work on ends up actually resulting in a title insurance policy where they purchase it. And so it’s a very unique relationship, but one where we still value that client. We would definitely want to service them.

Sean Swentek: Are there any surprising trends you’re seeing in how commercial properties are being repurposed around energy production?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, I think there’s just a basic mentality that folks are open to various forms of energy developments, different sizes. Maybe there might be like a micro grid option, right, where folks are really like, we’re going to take this section and we’re going to have it be completely sustainable on its own. Doesn’t need to connect. That was something that I can see as a trend. I think part of it is really to just listen to the folks that are actually on the ground listening to the communities and hearing from them. What are they looking for but also what’s a viable business model. Those are the trends they’re going to keep leaning into. So like battery storage, right? Battery storage for small commercial developments, battery storage for a large. I mean, I think that’s really where the trends are going to go.

But at the end of the day, folks want to save money and save time and if they can have a more efficient energy source, that’s what they’re going to do to accomplish that goal.

Sean Swentek: Feel like battery storage is having its moment, especially where you live in Texas. Every story I read is about these gas evolution there, which is great. You mentioned environmental, social governance earlier. How are ESG goals changing the way investors approach due diligence in commercial real estate deals?

Tara Brown-Selders: I think a lot of it is you listening to various stakeholders and seeing what it is that they’re really vested in, what they’re really concerned about going back to the board, into the company and saying, what is it? What are our goals? What are the various stakeholder goals? How can we align all of those together and be as profitable as we can? So I think there’s a real potential to implement certain initiatives, whether it’s energy efficiency or, you know, maybe implementing some higher standards as far as like domestic content or utilizing a workforce in a community where you’re going to be having a development. Maybe there’s a way to work with a community college and create a program and invest in a local workforce and kind of keep it more circular and keep the community involved. Right. That’s going to help various stakeholders.

But you know, ESG can have kind of this like people aren’t quite sure what to think of it. Right. But at the end of the day, I think a lot of it has to do with when you understand what the goals of ESG are. It’s just to make your corporation more efficient, more profitable. Right. And more responsible. So how can you go wrong with that?

Sean Swentek: Yeah. That people profit piece that you mentioned earlier. You know, before we had this interview, I was doing some research on you. I can see you’re involved in a lot of like eco friendly groups and like women leadership groups. The woman aspect, especially as someone who’s the proud husband of like a badass woman who’s out crushing it on where she does. How are you seeing like women changing the landscape in both renewable energy and title insurance, where I’m sure they’re both historically male dominated.

Tara Brown-Selders: Yes. So that is something that actually energizes me every day. It’s two different worlds coming together. It’s women supporting women in the commercial real estate space, which hasn’t necessarily always happened and wasn’t something that happened. I kind of had an opposite experience. And so my goal is to change the story for myself and for others. But in commercial real estate, women, traditionally we’re in just production roles, not necessarily executive roles. Right now they’re the ones that are leading the discussions. Or we’ve got women in policy that are really out there kind of advocating and fighting for, you know, common sense energy reform and tax Credits and things like that. And so you’re taking women from a renewable energy perspective that are already supporting each other, women that are from a commercial real estate perspective supporting each other.

And we kind of are all coming together in a way that’s really uplifting and empowering. And it’s something where we’ve made so much progress. We’re better advocates for ourselves. But when we can share experiences and learn from each other, really it helps inspire us. And so women supporting women is something that I really adhere to. And that’s part of my role in Women in Title, which is a support and advocacy organization for women across the commercial real estate industry across the country. And we’ve got lots of chapters and a lot of excitement. And it’s not your traditional sales networking organization. This is something where competitors, women are coming together to share experiences, to support each other, to advocate for each other, especially when they’re out at conferences. It’s not just during your day to day.

So that’s really something that I had wanted for years. And now I’m actually a part of Women in Title and co chairing the Houston chapter, which is really exciting. And we have a lot of plans in the works. But also to be part of Eco Women. And I joined the board a few years ago for Eco Women and we’re a small national nonprofit. Our mission is to empower women to become leaders in the environmental community and you know, are small, but we have a big vision, right. So we’ve got a lot of momentum behind us. We just got our first grant and I recently was elected president and I’m just so proud and honored to like serve. And it just goes to show, you know, like even this conversation we’re having today, leaning in to opportunities, sometimes even risks, right?

You got to know when to say yes and you have to know when to say. But I think you don’t know where something is going to lead you if you don’t take that opportunity and try. And so I really said, how am I going to rewrite the story for myself being mid career? And so I’m like, this is what I’m going to do. I’m going to help women. And even there were some women this year, earlier this year that were going to be at a conference together, didn’t know each other, going alone. And I connected them. Why not? Why not just let two women know, hey, you’re going to be in the same room together, you might as well hang out, get to know each other. Maybe you can even work together.

Sean Swentek: I love that for Any listeners interested? Where can they go to learn more about Eco Women and Women in Title?

Tara Brown-Selders: So Women in Title, we have a LinkedIn company page. I believe we should have a website at some point. They’re kind of revamping it. But Women in title, the LinkedIn organization page, also my LinkedIn profile, anybody can reach out to me and message me there. Ecowomen is ecowomen.org and we’re going to be having a national membership soon. So we have our most active chapter, which is our DC chapter, our original chapter. We also had some presence in Colorado, New York in the past. But I think the plan really is to identify women more regionally and start creating chapters that are Texas, west coast, Southeast. And so we have a lot of exciting plans in the works for that.

Sean Swentek: I love it. That’s awesome. This show is called the Future of Series Sustainability. If you look ahead 5 to 10 years, what’s your one bold prediction about what the future might look like? And maybe it’s something that would surprise our audience, right?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, I don’t know about making a bold prediction right now in these uncertain times. I’m going to go with cautiously optimistic because that’s what I always try to do every day. So, you know, not prediction, but a hope. My hope is that everyone kind of looks to themselves and says, what’s a priority? America’s energy security? How are we going to get there? How are we going to work together? How are we going to have, you know, common sense policies that support us, that, you know, support all the tools in the toolbox. Right. Like, we understand it’s not just a renewables. It’s also we love our day to day modern conveniences. How can we all work together to have more of a renewable energy transition while also maintaining America’s energy security? So my hope is that we all come together.

And that’s like going to a conference recently that had up to 9,000 people. I was like, okay, the energy is still there. Whatever it is that you’re always fighting for, it’s going to be an uphill battle. It’s going to be hard if it’s worth fighting for it. So we all need to come together and understand that we need to collectively have that cautious, optimistic attitude that we’re going to get this done.

Sean Swentek: Yeah, I love that. That’s a beautiful outlook. I’m going to move us to some lightning round questions. We’re nearing the end here. So quick, hit 1 to 3 sentences on each of these. I just want to get your perspective on some key topics. Solar Wind, other. What is your bet for the dominant renewable energy source in the US by say 2030?

Tara Brown-Selders: Ooh, I’m going to go with battery storage.

Sean Swentek: Oh.

Tara Brown-Selders: Because you know, it can stand on its own or you can co locate it next to solar next to an existing development. I think the size, the flexibility, the fact that it takes up such a smaller space when it comes to land usage, it’s not drilling into the land for solar. Right. It’s less land intensive. But I think there’s a lot of legislation and a lot of people around the country that collectively understand that battery storage serves such a good purpose. I mean, if you have a development of any kind, don’t you want to be as efficient as possible?

Sean Swentek: Yeah, I’m a big best fan myself. There’s obviously a ton of AI and technology growth happening across all industries, especially commercial real estate, property technology. Prop tech is such a burgeoning segment. Is there any like prop tech or AI or technology like company or sort of idea that you’ve been really excited that you’ve seen lately that has maybe sort of surprised you in its efficiencies or expectations?

Tara Brown-Selders: Well, I know that there is a lot of focus on AI when it comes to land. Right. Like how can we being that, for example, searching land, you know, in one county might be physically looking at books, whereas the next county over it might be all digital. Right. So how do we utilize AI when it comes to such inconsistencies? But I know that there are some folks out there that are developing software that can, you know, help with some of those land service issues. Right. Like creating deeds or searching land, searching the records in a more efficient manner or maybe filtering things out. I think in general, just the title insurance industry needs to get more comfortable with AI. So recently I asked my company if I could add the AI features to my Microsoft Teams meetings.

You know, I’m not just taking notes myself. Yeah, right. But I’m actually getting the notes afterwards. And of course we had to go through security and make sure that everything is secure. And I’m all for that. And even my boss was excited about it too. And he’s like, that’s, you know, it’s a great idea. And I’m like, yeah, what little things can we do to lean into AI that will make a big difference in our world? But we in the title insurance industry have these traditional challenges like searching books that you have to have a human do it. So I don’t. Which, you know, I guess is good on the one. Right, right.

But that is one of the other challenges that I didn’t mention was, you know, the inconsistencies across the board with searching records and the quality of searching those records and how far back you may have to go in one area as opposed to another area. And so it’s really having that expertise of knowing what do we need to do and how far, where do we need to go and when do we need to do it and how far back do we need to go?

Sean Swentek: Complete this sentence. The biggest myth about sustainability in the built world is that it’s hard.

Tara Brown-Selders: It’s not really. I mean, all the resources are there, so it’s just really delegating. Whether it’s a person, you know, implementing a program, it’s delegating some time, some money, some resources to being sustainable isn’t actually that hard once it’s a priority. But I think making it a priority is where they’re maybe getting kind of stuck. Right? It can be a big word, but when you start just taking it piece by piece, I think it actually becomes a lot easier.

Sean Swentek: If you were a real estate asset owner operator, what is the one sustainable property upgrade you’d make first?

Tara Brown-Selders: Probably some kind of solar installation because paying for air conditioning is expensive. So I probably want to reduce my energy costs first.

Sean Swentek: Yeah, I love that answer. And the costs only seem to be going up, so probably smart investment to make these days.

Tara Brown-Selders: Right. And we’re already big on the switching, turning the lights off and, you know, unplugging a few things if you’re going to be gone for a few days that don’t need to be plugged in. You know, there’s things you can do to just. Or using those power strips. Those are like. So especially with like storms and stuff in Houston, it’s really important to have that. But yeah, just in general, not cutting costs, but just reducing costs in a way that is actually more efficient elsewhere.

Sean Swentek: Makes a lot of sense to me. This was amazing, Tara. Thank you so much. If people want to learn more about you, I know you mentioned your LinkedIn page, but about Kensington Vanguard National Land Services and your work, where should they go?

Tara Brown-Selders: Yes, we also have, we’ve got our kvnational.com website, which is our national website, but we also have our Lone Star division in Texas and there’s an energy page on our Lone Star website specifically talks about myself, has my contact information, what the KV Energy division, what our goals are, and kind of provides a little bit more information just about the company in general. But you know, I will definitely be around in the fall at various conferences. And part of being in Houston is leaning into those local and state organizations, the networking events, the luncheons. So I’m happy to always just chat with anybody if they see me at any of those events as well.

Sean Swentek: Very cool. Will you be at that little solar event in Las Vegas later this year?

Tara Brown-Selders: You know, little one, I hope that’s what’s so exciting is I even had my boss come a couple of years ago and I was like, he’s in the commercial real estate world, the traditional. And I’m like, you got to get yourself immersed in this energy world and the excitement of adults. Right? Like having these conversations. It’s such a unique world. I love being in the renewable energy space.

Sean Swentek: Same, same. I hope I get to see you at RE+.

Tara Brown-Selders: Yes, I know, we’ll have to find each other.

Sean Swentek: I know for sure we will. Tara, thank you again so much for being on the show. It’s been an absolute pleasure getting to speak with you. To all my listeners, thank you for joining us on another episode of the Future of Sustainability in cre. I’m your host, Sean. It’s been a pleasure. I’ll see you next time.

Tara Brown-Selders: Thank you so much. That’s a wrap for today’s episode of the Future of CRE Sustainability. To stay ahead of the curve, visit Omnidion.com and subscribe to our newsletter for the latest insights and strategies in the CRE industry. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next time.